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Hooked on golf at age 10 playing for the first time with his dad on a family vacation, Bland Cooper went to work on the golf course at a young age. After a time in golf course construction, a natural evolution to consulting led him to his eventual career as a PGA Tour agronomist. Hear about the importance of quality of cut and after cut appearance from someone who spends 160 nights a year on the road and has seen it all. We discuss the value of volunteering and why it’s one of the best educational experiences you’ll ever have.

Transcript

Trent Manning: 
welcome to the reel turf techs podcast for the technician that wants to get reel follow along. As we talk to industry professionals and address hot topics that we all face along the way we’ll learn tips and tricks. I’m your host, Trent. Manning let’s have some Welcome to the real turf text podcast, episode 50. Today, we’re stepping outside the shop. Shop with bland Cooper, PGA tour, agronomist. We’re going to find out what he looks at when he sat in a course up. This is going to be a lot of fun. Let’s hear from bland. Welcome bland to the real turf tax podcast. How you doing today?

Bland Cooper: 
I’m doing great trends. How are you?

Trent Manning: 
Great. Thank you so much for coming on. This is going to be a lot of fun.

Bland Cooper: 
no, this is my pleasure. I didn’t even know you were doing this until recently when I saw you in micro and we’re tearing tweets and all that kind of fun to be on. And next thing I knew, my Mike Rollins said that you ought to get me on it. So here we are.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, no I’m the Emily looking forward to picking your brain and hearing some good stories.

Bland Cooper: 
So does everybody can blame Mike for this, right?

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, that’s right. Yes. We brought, we blame Mike for a lot of stuff. How did you get into the turf industry?

Bland Cooper: 
Oh, gosh, let’s see. I started I was 10 years old, a week before school started that my dad took me out to the golf course to play. None of those are the first time ever and hooked, but the rest of them what was remaining of summer vacation? Last week and every day. And I grew up in a little small town in South Carolina called Manny little golf course there called clarinet and golf and country club. It wasn’t much, that was a fun place to grow up. And anyway, so like I said, I was hooked and found myself always around the golf course when I wasn’t in school or doing other things, no school athletic related. By the time I was 12, I was parking carts and 14 years old, I was working in the golf shop. And by 15 I was running all the equipment. So it was a small operation where you had the golf professional was the superintendent no formal training, but yeah, so that’s how I started and I went to school for something totally different. I was studying accounting and some other stuff too. And and it just seemed like always kept gravitating back towards golf and Know, I floundered around with school for the first couple of years. Not really knowing what I wanted to do, and only just said, you know what, I’m gonna give this a shot and know saw there was a science component of it, which is would ultimately end up going back and getting my degrees in. But to be able to associate that with the profession really tied two things together, I really enjoyed. And yeah, it’s like a moth to a flame, really. I just could not, I could never fly away from it. I kept coming back to work on courses in the summer and during the school year. And and going out of school, I went to school for it, loved it. And here we are 25, 30 years later.

Trent Manning: 
That’s awesome. Walk me through your.

Bland Cooper: 
I started out like I said, started out as an accounting major, then got so far down the accounting path and it’s too late to turn back that time. But after school during school internships, I’ll work at the standard club in the Mar coven and was hired out of school by Ron’s a tail who had been an assistant superintendent under market standard club back in the eighties and early nineties. And Ron hired me to go to Atlanta and oversee a golf course there. And then we ended up adding some golf courses or going along, and I left there to go to Charlotte in 1996 to, to build a golf course and Speedway club golf course up in Concord, actually just north, Northeast, and built that one in when that management company that I worked with there, they were coincidentally. Former principals for the company that had hired me in Atlanta, who went on their own and took me with them. So we built that course and then built a few more golf courses through in Atlanta and around the Charlotte area. And so I was doing a lot of construction grow in type stuff. And did that for a number of years and out of the blue hat got approached by by an individual who was in the golf business from the other side of it. He was real estate, golf management guy, Sam Shoemaker. And he was starting a company to go and buy and manage the stress golf course properties and do consulting work and due diligence stuff. And so we started a company and I did that for a number of years, several years. To be exact. And during that time, it wasn’t as though I purposely went and set up a shingle outside my door and call myself a consultant, but I was asking. By some courses just to come out and take a look at some things. And before I knew it, it was a full-time thing. And I was doing some work for a couple of tour sites and also was asked to do some work at the time for a company called valley crest. The time to now Brian, to do some third party due diligence work for them and performer stuff. And that turned into being role on board with them. I guess this had been back in oh 5 0 6 as their national director of agronomy. And that was short lived because I wasn’t there many months. And then the late John Scott who had been over the tour grind before, while he had retired and a gentleman Cal Roth had taken over the department, Cal, and I’ve spoken over the years Coming to work the tourism capacity. And when he finally had control of the department, he gave me a call and said, have you been arrested? And I said here we are,

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, rest is history.

Bland Cooper: 
The rest of the story. Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
That’s right. I won’t do a party and we’ll all go there. What’s your favorite tool and why?

Bland Cooper: 
They were dual for what I do for a living. Yeah. You know what my, my sandwich it’s the one that I can tell everything I need to know. Then two golf balls, if you wanna call free tools. But I played golf and was never, obviously wasn’t good enough to go pro but I’ll carry to low single digit handicap for a number of years. And now that I can break into it now, but I know a shot supposed to look like even if I can’t replicate it, but. I’ve been around long enough to know that, to get the feel of a green and the way a green is the way it feels under foot. And when a ball bounces away, it rolls and reacts and impact that club and do golf balls tells me me personally, everything I need to know about a green is, and all the guys on our staff do walk the golf courses frequently and are always on potting surfaces. Each person has their own way of doing it. But yeah. Now if I want to try to, once we get that a greens close to where we feel like they’re competitive, then obviously I can’t have somebody, my sandwich and have them go and duplicate those dishes. So at that point, that becomes what’s my favorite turf tool. It would be the moisture meter. I think that’s the one that really suns because you control it from some moisture into some extent you’re controlling speed with moisture during the tournament. But I can put that meter in someone’s hands and give them a number or a range of numbers. And I know that the, if we’re in that range of numbers, that the greens play it up in a certain way. So, The speed and everybody gets wrapped up and step meters and that kind of thing is take a putter out there and you put your whole occasions and if the ball won’t stop and a whole location is there to fast and slow them down,

Trent Manning: 
We’re going to that.

Bland Cooper: 
There’s not a, there’s not rockets,

Trent Manning: 
Okay.

Bland Cooper: 
down.

Trent Manning: 
What’s the strangest thing you’ve seen at work, and I’m sure you got a lot of stories.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. It’s they’re probably all spectator related people that you just don’t think they could get that drunk and still be. You’re out like that, the hospitals. All right. But it’s amazing. People can just watch them. And it’s kind kinda funny when you see the Hills, a good example, Hilton head Hilton has always been a place where, and there’s a great place to go, but it’s a there’s a big party in a golf breaks out in the middle of it. So UCLA people the more and more cameras we put on golf courses, the more and more of these things called films, you might start seeing more and more of social media and it involved drugs. Spectator. There are too many probably we could spend a whole podcast on just that.

Trent Manning: 
was one of your pet. Around the shop or around the house.

Bland Cooper: 
Oh, gosh I think that’s probably, I’d probably share it with a lot of people and that’s just general cleanliness and organization. I’m a definitely OCD guy and I’m exposed. Cause my wife is not, but she operates very well in her world. females try to find anything in it, you can never work. She doesn’t go back wherever they are. But when I’m home for periods of time, I get everything organized and then I go away and get out of 1000 to come back if it’s just sick, like thing. But yeah, it’s just general. I’ve always, I was told a long time ago. I don’t even have told it to me, but was somebody a lot wiser than me. But while people, they told me that they could tell. All we need to tell about a golf course operation, then you didn’t go on the golf course. You look at the golf course. So just by walking around the shop and that’s not necessarily how grandiose it was or how modern it was, just how clean and organized there’s I subscribed to that. Now there are a few anomalies to it, but for the most part, that’s a pretty accurate assessment. we had a guy used to work for us years ago, whose father was a general in the Marine Corps is going, if you can’t make your bed in the morning, you can’t commit to doing anything right. That day

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, no, that’s a good one.

Bland Cooper: 
only going to organize shop the same way. If you can’t have your shop organized and clean, then it’s not going to translate into the golf. We’re now having said that was funny because a long time I had my favorite technician that ever worked with Steve. When I was a superintendent, he was fantastic. Oh, Julie’s since passed away. But he was he was. He was a character from, to take them. That was him. He was, it, everything was dope and I couldn’t get mad at him because he always kept things in an operating order and everything was PM. No real problem with reels. And you just put a piece of tape down over the shop floor and said, look, this is my little domain and the rest of the chores. And if we’re going to coexist us the way we’re going to have to do things. Hey, I made a, we made an exception and we had a long, real long career together, but yeah it’s a cleanliness.

Trent Manning: 
I like that one, for sure. I interviewed her. He’s the equivalent

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
at Torrey Pines.

Bland Cooper: 
Okay.

Trent Manning: 
when I asked him what his favorite tool was, a broom and

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. That’s great.

Trent Manning: 
He was a Navy guy.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
25 years in the Navy or whatever, and he just loved to broom and he loved cleaning up.

Bland Cooper: 
Th there was a technician that I work with down in a, in Boca Raton, Florida, yo of course at broken sound where he played number 10 championship champions. And Ms. Larry and Larry in a shop, if you gave me the option of going to have surgery here at the hospital, three miles away, or you to fly me down to Larry shop, but I’ll take 30 shot. Not because the hospital scares me like Yeah. And he has equipment down there that’s 12 years old. Looks like in print.

Trent Manning: 
that’s awesome. And there’s quite a few of those guys in our industry that are maintaining things at that level. You have a mentor in the industry

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. I do well have. I have several that have had a big influence on me over the years and somebody realized it was happening. I’m like all these things. Or I think that a lot of people who stay in a field long enough will have more than one. And I’m showing no exception to that. When I first started, when I was a teenage boy working on the golf course, it was the guy who I told you earlier was a golf professional and the superintendent, Mr. Eddie Barrett, he was the first guy that gave me a job. And cut me loose to do things that no 15 year old should be doing on the golf course. But he trusted me. And so he was in my developmental years. And then my first real Paulson in this field put a bit more COVID standard club. And of course, along the way there, Dr. Terry Vassey who was a professor of mine in college, Dr. Dan volts who taught biology in college. Those guys. And then of course, the got at Carl’s sports cough, and all the professors who had a, not an impact don’t owe my career. And then most recently guys on, on my staff let’s step, it I’ll work for it. I was hired Trent back in 2006. And when I was brought on, I was 35 years old and the bulk of our staff at that time, or guys in their fifties and even early sixties with the exception of one. And and all those guys took me under their wing, Dennis ledger, who since passed away, Jeff Haley, unfortunately just passed away just a little over a year ago, Tom brown. It was another guy that that really mentored me and they could have easily just this new kid he’s going let him sink on his own, but they didn’t. They kept me from. I made plenty of mistakes, make it really big. So there are a number of people who who’ve influenced me and helped me out along the way. And I’m sure I’m leaving somebody out. Hopefully don’t listen to this.

Trent Manning: 
That’s all right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard. We interact with so many different people throughout our career and yeah, it’s definitely hard to talk about all the ones that have affected you over the years, because sometimes it could just be one little thing that you learned from this one person and it really changes your laugh. What would be your dream job or opportunity?

Bland Cooper: 
As far as reality goes, if you’re going to, we got to evolve involved. The fantasy world is probably to go back in a time machine 40 years ago.

Trent Manning: 
Okay.

Bland Cooper: 
Jimmy buffet is butt, but trust me, if you knew Jimmy Buffett was the last 40 years, you’d want to be.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah. Yeah, no I think uh, of our audience is probably in our age range, so they probably know who Jimmy buffet is.

Bland Cooper: 
All right. We’re good. All season two. I’m good. All right.

Trent Manning: 
was good. What do you know now that you wish you’d known on day one?

Bland Cooper: 
You know everything.

Trent Manning: 
That’s the first time I’ve had that answer. That’s a really good one.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. I wish I’d known you when you’re living in the Mo I’m of and have been when I was younger and I’m I’m not the only one, but was probably a little over ambitious at times and wanted to make moves. Not necessarily when I wasn’t ready to make, but I probably wasn’t ready for the job, but I thought the next challenge I gotta go, we gotta go. And and it wasn’t comfortable at one place very long and consequently never really stopped to really enjoy the moment it was going along, because I’ve been in a lot of, it’s been, I’ve been extremely fortunate to be in this industry and I’ve worked in some really nice places with a lot of nice people. And I was younger. I just, if I knew, then what I know now would have taken the time and probably enjoy the moment a little more than that. Now that I’m in my fifties, that’s something I need to start doing more of. And whether they say youth is wasted on the young,

Trent Manning: 
yeah. It’s a true statement. And I think as like equipment managers, lot of us are wired the same way and we’re always moving towards the next project or the next goal. And as soon as you make a repair, instead of taking two seconds and say, oh yeah,

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
good. That I fixed that you’re just jumping right into the next thing. And you’re always looking for the next challenge.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah, exactly. Or just being in a golf course for a bit of time and leaving that golf course, and then realizing that if you left what, that was not the fond memories of place. I wish I would have enjoyed it as much looking back. Not that I didn’t enjoy it, but it was again just maybe a little over anxious, a little over ambitious at times. Enjoy Microsoft probably would have liked to have now looking back.

Trent Manning: 
right. You got any tips or tricks you want to share with us?

Bland Cooper: 
You know what I’ll learn all of them from you guys. I mean my favorite place to be during advance week and listen to love all, I love going out and hanging out with them, with the equipment technicians and just seeing cause every one of you and all the ones I work with are extremely competent and extremely successful. And do I’m very fortunate sites that I’m assigned with the technicians that are employed by those facilities are exceptionally good without exception. But everybody does a little bit differently. And one guy you swear by contact and the next guy was swear by no contact and it’s wonderful. It loves this color and I love this color and this color over here. And they all do a wonderful job as far as all the little tips and tricks that I’ve picked up so many things over the years. I probably should’ve made a list of I’ll give you this one. How about this? If you ever go paint a golf course, you mark a golf course. And the paint’s been stored in the building for a while. Just put the box upside down on the cars you’re out around, and it’ll knock the ball loose as you drive around you shake it up.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, a good one. And I’m gonna do, I’m gonna take that tip and use it in the shop. Next time I got to use the shaker camper, something I’m going to put it in the back of the car,

Bland Cooper: 
Exactly. Yeah, we do it anyway.

Trent Manning: 
go. That’s a good, that’s

Bland Cooper: 
You never have to shake it up.

Trent Manning: 
how many tournaments do you work per year?

Bland Cooper: 
I’m a son too. I’m assigned to kind of, per year. And each of those events require site visits, leading into the tournament, depending on what’s going on. And then of course it’ll involve a two week advance. We’ll get there generally the one day of advance week, then we’ll be there all the week and then alternative week. And which is about, that’s about as many as you could work with having done doing that. You’re on the road about 160 days or so a year,

Trent Manning: 
Wow.

Bland Cooper: 
days a year. Yeah that’s commitment to it, but,

Trent Manning: 
When do you start making.

Bland Cooper: 
Trent, generally speaking we make a visit all of our sites around the two month window prior to the term of BMP. They’re in most cases are, or other visits that are made during the year. I’m fortunate that all of my sites now are in the Southeast and I can tie multiple visits together on a certain trip, either going down I 95 or going around 85 coming to you Atlanta, I can pick up several sites to the 85 corridor, but having said that I generally make at least two, two visits to all of my sites prior to advance. And then if there’s something going on as a project, your renovation, or there’s an issue that we’re dealing with and I’ll make additional visits as necessary. But yeah on average two, plus the advance.

Trent Manning: 
Okay, so you already answered one of my questions on how many nights are you in a hotel?

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah,

Trent Manning: 
So

Bland Cooper: 
I could tell you the exact number, but it’s between 155 and 160, and I’m spending

Trent Manning: 
that’s close. That’s close enough. That’s plenty at domino hotel.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. Being a lot of the RPO stuff too, I can be two weeks and where you want it to feel a little bit like home,

Trent Manning: 
Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. This might be a tough question and I hate to put you on the spot, but do you have a favorite or a most rewarding tournament

Bland Cooper: 
Whatever I give her gave you those dumb guys that won’t like it. But I like it. And this is an honest answer. The. All of my tournaments, like you look at children they’re all different

Trent Manning: 
Yup.

Bland Cooper: 
all the same. And each of them have their own personality. They have their own cast of characters that you’ve come in contact with. And that’s the part of this job that I really trying to enjoy the most is getting to go to places that that I would otherwise go to and then working with people I wouldn’t otherwise get to work with or let alone meet. But each of them or are their own little entity, own little child, if you will, we went through an exercise. So you’ve just been years ago now with our staff, our managers. So the films will rate your tournaments in order of which ones you liked the most to the ones you don’t like the most. And that way, if there’s an opportunity to pull you out of one of them, we can do that. And I sat down for a long time with all my. I just gave him a one and kept on going. I said, look up. I can’t find any of them. I want to give up. I’m lucky that way because the people I work with at all the sites are really a really good, I don’t knock on wood. This is my 16th year and I don’t dread going to any of them Or to go into all of them. So I hope that keeps up with the next 12 years or so.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, until you’re ready to retire. And then you don’t care. That’s a, I’m sure you know, Tina Workman

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. Oh yeah. Look,

Trent Manning: 
for yeah. Yeah, she is great. But me and another guy, we started helping her out with education for the equipment manager seminar we have here in Georgia. And I said what’s our commitment here? How long do we need to do this, Tina? And she said, until I retire, and then it doesn’t matter. Y’all can do whatever people want, y’all are sticking around and health and me, but great.

Bland Cooper: 
She always comes and there was a big backpack blower on and blows off all 20 dreams every morning. And she could hold her own man.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah. told us it was a hilarious story. And since we were talking about my earlier, she met Mike for the first time at east lake this past year. And later that afternoon, had turned into Dewayne Grimes and she walks over and introduced herself. She thought it was a totally different person. She had no idea it was box. So he pulls the wig off and he’s data. It says, sorry. But she told that story yesterday. Really good story.

Bland Cooper: 
Great.

Trent Manning: 
What’s your first task or priority when you walk on to a course, that’s hosting a tournament for the first time.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. So one that’s already been approved, right? Is that what you’re asking? One that we’ve already because if we’re looking at one, the potential that we could play, one on that we do the site assess some of that kind of stuff, and that’s a different set of evaluations. But once we get past that point and we’ve already approved the site, we’ve already had meetings to discuss what we’re going to do those meetings obviously, are numerous between a bunch of different people. specifically you’re involved with primarily the superintendent and and the tournament host also the tournament, sponsor and organization, but let’s look at logistics or how many people do you have. And w what’s the equipment complementing and what do we need to add to the fleet, if you will, to make sure we have enough equipment of the job and the timing of everything and what to expect that at first year at a club for someone who’s never hosted it for a site, just never hosted. It’s just a lot of anxiety about what to expect. And so Brian, to let them know that look the light at the end of the tunnel, it’s not a train. It’s actually just take this day by day shift by shift and work our way backwards from the end of the tournament, we’re going to be in the tournament, just come back to here and let’s look at this very organized and very methodical way. I’ve been out long enough now I can go into these sites and I can tell pretty quickly how much of an uphill. Climb is going to be taken from where they are, to where they need to be. And the hardest thing is for somebody in my position to go in and to quickly convinced the superintendent that, we’re not the Oz behind the curtain. We’re not the there’s this big, bad logo’s gonna come in here and take over the world. That’s not it at all. That’s not what we were. If we are there to make that individual look good. And not putting them under any undue stress, because if they’re successful, then we’re success. And that trust take some time rightfully so that the bill stop some guy. And I’ll let see, I’ve got some guys that like light Ms. State of Missouri, the show me state, and we want you to prove yourself for yourself over and over. And then I’ll trust you. I have no problem with that. If we’re doing our job the right way and supporting them the way that we need to be supported that trust will come. And and then during the event, obviously we’re trying to be we’re leading into, and during the event, our company, I think 30 departments now we have over 2000 employees. And so there’s a lot of, there are a lot of stories being shot at the superintendent requests from all these different departments. So what we’re trying to do is be the hub of that messaging and pick the messaging. That’s important, tear it down and digestible. Instead of giving the list of 25 things that 10 of them don’t mean anything. It was gonna look here, let’s just go all these come out. And so just to make it more palatable. and I think generally speaking that after somebody’s gone through the first they realize that, Hey, this is okay, this wasn’t as bad as I thought. probably spent a lot more time worrying about these items over here, and I can take them off the list for next year or so. Jeff Haley Grove referred to you referenced earlier, long time ago. And she was out here for over 35 years. Like I said, passed away. Unfortunately last year he was he meant to come at one time. He says we, we aren’t our paychecks in first year of it.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, I’m sure.

Bland Cooper: 
So that’s yeah, but I’m going to give you a whole checklist of what to look for it. It’s subconscious at this point. Yeah. You bet no shops and look around. Yeah can get this stuff up and running or I can’t help feeling when you walk on the property, but unfortunately

Trent Manning: 
This is like you were saying a lot of those shops. You can, Joe. Just by walking in the shop. Not that we want to judge people, but you can usually tell a lot about an operation.

Bland Cooper: 
yeah. Maybe evaluated better, a better term.

Trent Manning: 
evaluate.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
So you were talking about, figuring out, do they need more equipment? Do they need more people, more bodies that decision,

Bland Cooper: 
I’ll make it. We’ll make it with the superintendent. Whoever’s me or whoever’s in my position it’s a simple numbers game. We look at what all we want to accomplish each shift morning, football morning shift on Monday. If you want to get all these things done, you have X number of employees on the payroll, and we need an additional Y price. So we find these Y and what we’re the industry just does the whole turf industry equipment. The agronomy side of it, it never ceases to amaze how everybody always comes forward and volunteers for these events. And I feel people everywhere I go and give a talk about our company, about what we do. It’s our business model as a company. Doesn’t work without volunteers, each PJ to a terminal. You look at all the volunteers that are not district and maintenance, but across the entire spectrum, there’s up to two to 500 volunteers to take time out of their week. Now I’m obviously biased toward maintenance because we’re the first ones. They’re the last ones to leave every day. And I think work the hardest that question. But so attracting the volunteers what’s happened over the years is that most sites have really developed a nice with the industry support local vendors or even manufacturers and national suppliers going forth and put together support to to bring these volunteers in from some cases from around the world each like you they’re familiar with them. They bring Ralph and Charlie bring in, I think pre COVID, it was eight or nine countries. And in the volunteer component. So I’m going to bay hill here in three weeks and I was just talking to Chris Flynn, the superintendent phone earlier. Yeah he’s at a point where he’s the next guy or girl who calls the volunteer, got to turn him away. He’s got too many. So that’s really nice. We have that compliment of people to come in and does it’s double or some cases triple the capacity of the established old basis. But really it’s, it’s very simple. All the jobs you need to do the number of people didn’t do his job. Do you have, how many do you get? We gotta go get this many people.

Trent Manning: 
Yep. So shameless plug. I did a webinar for GCSF about the value of volunteering, but I want to hear what would you say about the value of volunteering?

Bland Cooper: 
I tell you I don’t know where it ever went. Would you share stuff like that? I wasn’t involved with it before a while. It’s been probably 10 years ago. Our cow Raul, who used to be only in charge of the department was trying to make a push to to get CU, even external CU or volunteering at a term. I firmly believe if somebody who comes and volunteers for seven days that a PGA tour champions tour or very event is going to pick up a lot more information. That is just the breadth of information, just because of the time you’re exposed and they’re going to pick up from a four hour class, nothing against, let’s not take it countless for our classes. There are very few four glasses on the docket. I haven’t taken some form or fashion in the last 25 years but being on site, talking to other people. And that’s pretty good education right there. It’s worth what you get out of what you put into it. And if you just wanted to come show up and then leave the shifts over and go back and sleep and come back and do the same thing over, and yeah, you may not get all out of it, but if you most individuals that I see volunteer, interact with other people, and and I go back to east lake because there’s one, we’re both familiar with it. Now you see repeat customers every year. You see these volunteers coming back year, over year and their friendships develop. And I’ve actually seen career trajectories that have gone off in another direction altogether because of the relationships that have been formed there. And that’s just the case in any of these sites that people go volunteer for you’re going to get a lot of exposure. You’re going to see a lot of things. And and some of these Terp programs are really good at it. When I came through. I don’t Drink beer. That’s what we do best with volunteering. But I don’t know that there’s a turf program out there right now who is not sending students to volunteer. I can think of, gosh, I’ve worked some form or fashion. It doesn’t upload the last seven or eight, nine years, or good about sending their students who want to come to these things and not just students. Listen I’ve been in this +business over 30 years and I’ve done 200 plus golf tournaments and traveled the world. And there’s not a place that it goes, I don’t learn something

Trent Manning: 
Oh, exactly right. That’s what I wanted to say is I’ve volunteered at east lake for 11 years. The only year I miss was COVID and that was because we had so much going on at my course, and I couldn’t get away. But out of those 11 years, a lot of it’s the same people Raspin there. The the whole time Charlie’s been there quite a while,

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
but still learn something new every time I go. And every year, and even if I just go for one day, for half a day, I’ll pick up one little thing.

Bland Cooper: 
Oh I spent they were ready to kick me out of there a couple of times this past year, just to watch them and ask questions and they were great. They answered every one of them, but I think at some point they were probably might get this so we can get they were, they’re very houseboat. Both of them.

Trent Manning: 
You say that, but honestly, both of those guys, you could ask them a million questions. I really don’t think they, they would mind, they would just keep going because

Bland Cooper: 
you’re right.

Trent Manning: 
sharing their knowledge, the

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
have. They’re happy to pass along to anybody else on why you do things a certain way.

Bland Cooper: 
And then if they’re not again, this year, I’ll be hanging out in the shop again this year.

Trent Manning: 
I know Mike, he’s already talking

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
so he’ll be there. Where does the quality of cut rank on your list of priorities?

Bland Cooper: 
I’d say it’s one, two and three and then four and five and six right on. Yeah, it is the one thing that you have not done a properly or how that. Negative impact on the playability that sure. Which ultimately that’s what we’re shooting playability over everything else. Now I say turf health that you have to have health playability, but for example, one of the things that when I’m out there with my wedge hitting shots all during the financial week, we’ll pitch shots and putts, and that kind of in my mind, I’m thinking, all right, what are the routes of green? How many greens Moore’s where we’re sending out? What are their routes? Are they all? And so and you know, this a lot better than that, dude, you can have all more set up the same way, but if one reel is older, it still, maybe it will be within tolerance. But if all the reel is brand new, it’s different and it’s going to have a different speed. And I try to feel that and if I need confirmation, then I’ll get this. And when I do, and I do stem greens know I have reasons for doing it but one of the things I do look for is if we’re sending out, let’s say seven Grange, molds, or eight greens mowers and they’re all low in their own greens. And I want to make sure I’m sipping at least one and preferably two greens from each of those mowers, because if one’s going to be set up the wrong way, you can’t really tell the shop. You’ll see it, you’ll see it on the surface itself. And you’d be amazed how many times over the years I’ve caught one greens, more being out of whether it was my gosh, we had no idea this was a 17 pound roller and the other ones are, it looked the same. And why is this more scalping? And they’re all everything’s identical or this mower’s not, these grains are slower. You look at the reel and it’s four and a half inches or so. So that, that is you can have, I’ve. Fancy myself being pretty good at putting together fungicide. Maybe I’m not but in my head, I think I am, and you could have the best control product application program written. You’re gonna have the best fertility program. You can have the best aerification and top to rest, you get water management. And, but none of them meaning mowers are set up. What I do for a living, our players are gonna see that. and I tell you, no, I’m not going to wait. I’m going to regret saying this may happen to me several weeks, but I can’t remember the last time we had a more streak or something like that. But one of the tournaments it’s just was a Testament to the technicians at the sites that I’m signed in. Then of course, like you said, people like you coming to volunteer experience, guys, You can throw something up on the lift and real quickly tell that listen. And we can’t send it back out here until we get it right. It’s come a long way. Often it’s your part of the industry, your branch of the industry, Trent has always been in a very reactive mode of necessity. And what I mean by that is that if you look at the advances in the last 25 years or so, and what we can do, it all starts with breeding, right? Turf, grass breed. We got to come up with you’ve arrived, you’ve denser, and all they can look at live in thousand degrees and no sunlight and all that. know the last thing I looked at is hardly how do they respond under, existing equipment? What do we do to come up with things to help? And I’ve been around long enough. I remember pin cross and pinpoints and. And the more equipment we used and the setups we used back then are quite a bit different than what we use now. And while the manufacturers get credit for that, I know. And I’m sure everybody listening to this podcast knows as you well know those ideas originate from people like yourself I love to tell a story about JRM, actually who started that whole program was equipment technician at Charlotte country club and dub Coleman. But if you’re heard dub called, that was an interesting guy. Dub is Dale Earnhardt’s uncle. And if you watch the sports center, 60 sports and the thing on day learn where they interviewed up, he was a time equipment technician at Charlotte country club. And he’s the one who developed the bed nights, the original. I started that the bed knife, a line for JRM. When I look at these, look at all the advancements in the equipment side of it, it all originated at the ground level. And I like to pick on the manufacturers say that the stuff that, that confuses us and causes headache of the stuff y’all worked out on tier four crap and all this other stuff that take $20,000 bullets anyway. But but so I say that with all the respect in the world, and then that every time that the industry or sell the industry has been has been challenged with that, which has responded always. There’s nothing out there right now that we don’t have the ability equipment-wise to manage at a very high level. I’ve love what you guys do and love watching them in the engineering component. And it’s tricky to think about when you think about golf courses in general they’re dynamic environment, the constant change if you tried to sign an R-value to them, you couldn’t, there’s no way you can plot off a coefficient of one, however, in what you do, you can’t, there’s the one part of the business that you can have specifics and you can have very high levels of predictability, and that’s what makes the other things manageable. And if you don’t have that, then what’s already a moving target is going to be untouchable.

Trent Manning: 
No that’s really good. And I was thinking back on the bed knife thing, and I remember, and whatever, early two thousands, a lot of people are higher end courses. A lot of those guys were grinding in the back side of the bed knife turn it around in the bed, not grinder that backside so they could cut low enough. And then finally the manufacturers started developing knives so we could cut lower and,

Bland Cooper: 
the clinical brushes. That, that came at, came out. All these things would come up. You look at a real estate. It’s the same real it’s been out there for decades. But what are we doing to that real now that makes it better than it was 25, 30 years ago. And there’s a lot of stuff that’s going on that. And it’s funny because most people have no idea. Nobody listen to outside.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah.

Bland Cooper: 
We had a company of. Outside of our TPC organizations of superintendents and people and theater of each for there’s they’re loving 11 of us out of 2,500 that know anything about this. And we don’t even know everything we’re was we’re not technicians. we may claim sometimes you know, more than we do, but yeah it’s a hidden talent. That is that is, I wish it would showcase more often. I guess we’re kinda like referees at the end of the day, if you’re not noticed, it means that everything was turned out as,

Trent Manning: 
But that’s what I’m trying to do with this podcast is get some of these guys a little more recognition, at least in the industry. No outside of the industry. I don’t know if those people ever see what we do.

Bland Cooper: 
no.

Trent Manning: 
because a lot of us like to be behind the scenes.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. Unless you turn into you can do a spin off of this, like the old car to talk with those guys and you can do questions on home lawnmowers and that kind of. You and Rollins can do that.

Trent Manning: 
That’s a,

Bland Cooper: 
You can do that.

Trent Manning: 
we get that. We make that joke all the time

Bland Cooper: 
That would be funny. Watchable.

Trent Manning: 
And even actually one of the. I don’t know, it was one of the last episodes that drop guy. He was automotive guy a buddy says, Hey, they need a mechanic at a golf course. And he’s oh, sure. I can do that. I know I could change some blades and work on some golf carts that ain’t no big deal, and it’s just the stereotypical thing. That’s what they think we do. We just work on a lawn mower. don’t understand it’s a $65,000 lawn mower with cotton units or seven cutting units. And they’re all reels and tight tolerances. I mean, I have, I have no idea. No. Other than the obvious of keeping reels and blade sharp keeping the equipment from Leakin. What can we, as equipment managers do to keep the turf healthier and on the latter side is that much sand really necessary.

Bland Cooper: 
Oh really time before we get around. But it goes back to something that we talked about earlier than that was. And the organization to clearly this professionalism that a shop has, and maybe that doesn’t have at that very moment, a direct impact on quality, however very well. And you’ve probably seen shops where the gas cans are all thrown together and you don’t know if it’s mixed or if it’s diesel or what somebody put the wrong thing in the wrong tank and nothing good or happens with that. You burn something up or you blow something and it could, it can damage her. So having a shot again, organization having the people involved in that operation being well-trained, and of course that falls more on the superintendent, the assistants to make sure that’s the case, not necessarily you guys, however having those individuals respect your space they come to get stuff out of your space, make sure it’s the right thing and not taking the wrong thing on the golf course. And nothing killed. Turf faster than people, right? Great grass lift for many, many millions of years, all bond by itself until superintendents came along, we started killing it. Yeah it just is keeping equipment in and in good running order and your PM and those kinds of things. I mean that all, without that, you’re not going to have healthy turf, I don’t know, or any condition really.

Trent Manning: 
That’s good. Another thing I was thinking about a minute ago when we were talking about quality of cut obviously that’s paramount the quality cup being but what about after cut appearance? So your quality of cut is great, but it doesn’t appear to the eye to look good. And I know high Def and high definition television all these different things. So a lot of those things show up. For instance, the double cut lines or a double roll line on a fairway where it doesn’t really affect play. It just doesn’t appear that nice.

Bland Cooper: 
And naturally a paradigm when we fight all the time. And because as you well know all the time, especially in warm season golf, Bermudagrass golf course. Let’s just take those for me to grab, reflect sunlight, completely different. Then cool season too. And when they go through the irises of the cameras that then high Def cameras in particular they have a pretty dull color. They don’t reflect light very well. And so Bermuda grass surface, while it may appear in person while you’re standing on it to be exceptionally good. It can appear not so good on television. Conversely, I’ve been on a number of cool season golf courses or overstated golf courses that when you’re standing on top of it and looking down, you think this is okay, but it’s not exceptional. And you look at it on TV. It’s oh my God, this looks Ash. So I don’t get if the quality of cut is good and we’ve managed everything else, appropriately order inputs. Everything else we’re doing to get it to that point. Obviously what you get into tournament, we your your talk, dressing and stuff, that’s all gone wrong. You’ve hopefully, so I think an interesting question I’ll get back, but I don’t get, I don’t get now if we have lines in the green and in some cases if you mode with the mower, it’s not set up exactly. Sometimes you can drive a motor or housing motoring and you’ll get that line. And we have to be careful with that because if, listen, if there’s a line in the ground or in the grass, and it’s there all day long, it’s impacting play, I don’t care. Everybody says it’s going to have an impact on play. And so now if it’s something that goes away when the dude drives and then that’s that, obviously I’m not gonna worry about that. But and what you’re referring to, if you’re mowing unit directional cuts and fairways, you’re going all the same direction and you can start to see especially for using a non solid rear roll or if you’re catching grass and you’re using the roller basket anyway, you can leave those. We’d like to not have that. W if at all possible, but if we’ve tried everything else and we can’t reconcile it, then one was the cuts good. And every it’s not affecting ball, I’m more concerned with playability. That’s what I have first and foremost is playability. And now I want to make sure that we are respectful to our television partners and giving them something that they can broadcast that haven’t explained why it looks funny, but but both our network partners and our cable partner are really good at that. And they have their talent on the air for the most former players and they get it they know that. And we turn a golf course rounds out a little bit, or smoking rye, grass out during the event know, they don’t get too excited about, oh my God, it’s just dying. No, it’s not dying restraint now, but yeah, in a perfect world, we don’t have that. We don’t have those real static blemishes. But again, back to your question, I would say, yeah, I’ve never seen a golf course put out too much sand in it. And if you could reach through the the network and grabbing around the neck, I’m sure you would, along with every other technician I used to work with would always say that the, my parents must have never let me play in a sandbox if I don’t up. Yeah, if we could come up with a different way to, to continue to keep services from batch production low, then Hey, I’m all in favor of it. But putting in sand is a, there’s no phone for any.

Trent Manning: 
Rod and I, and I get that. And I do think that the more the equivalent manager understands reasoning behind the agronomic practices. The better you can deal with it. Work to it, but just understanding actually going on out there and why doing it makes it more acceptable in my book.

Bland Cooper: 
You’re writing also making sure that you guys are equipped to handle it in other words if you’re going to be on a regular ponderous program once a week, which then they give you guys support and give you additional inventory in the form of other reels, right? Top dressing reels that we go put on the board for a couple of days and beat those up. But they’re a perfect, no big deal. And I get it. I’ve seen cases where technician is spent on like grounding reels and bed nods to come in and. The decision is made to talk to our screens that day. And Hey, I get it. I’d be locked up for murder. Also if I was the technician, there’s somebody dying. Yeah, but I don’t see that, it’s the entire industry’s gotten so much better, so much more about doing things and at least the facilities that go to that stuff is very well planned out. And it’s a necessary evil, unfortunately, but it’s not I don’t see it any more where it’s a caustic part of the relationship between technician and the superintendent. I think all you guys understand it. If we had to do it, we would do it right, because it costs money to buy the sand. It goes money to have the equipment, to throw the sand. It goes money to put the sand out. Nobody’s happy about it. The players and everybody else. Yes. Like I said, somebody come up with a better,

Trent Manning: 
I heard a good one the other day and the technician was trying to get his reels and badness and the under sand. Under the aggregate item in the budget, because I mean they’re related.

Bland Cooper: 
I’m not the account of that club obviously but if you’re trying to more accurately account for why those dollars are spent and you can certainly put half of it in the sand without a bag,

Trent Manning: 
Yup. Yup.

Bland Cooper: 
what would I spend? And we never talked, dressed, and then whatever the difference is, you put that in saying, yeah, that’s

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, I liked

Bland Cooper: 
worked for me.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, I’m gonna, I’m gonna pitch it to the Courtney. the other thing I want to try to work out is when the ice-maker on the course stops working and I have to work on that and I have to buy a part for it. That’s equipment repair, because it’s a piece of equipment, even though we’re not using it for the golf course.

Bland Cooper: 
The clubhouse. You’ve got thousands, probably administrative gentlemen straight in 2000 miles. You’re probably 4,000 or 5,000. The empathetic.

Trent Manning: 
yeah. No that’s a good one. Yeah. We had to do a well pump while back. And I got involved with that mass and the lady and the business office. I don’t remember. She told me the code house and I said, I’m using that for everything from here on out.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. always, one thing I always wanted, I wouldn’t know the entire charter, the couch where every department, it was like you said, we’re were asked to work on something that didn’t involve us or operation doesn’t it depends on, I’m not paying.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, exactly. No, that’s good. What do you have anything else you want to talk about?

Bland Cooper: 
This is a, this has been great. And I’m so glad you’re doing this I hope this continued to grow and it can really take off, like we said earlier, it’s easy to have these ideas and I have a bunch of them all the time and I just lay in bed, pick the time to make it before you’ve actually done it. And the gumption to see it through. And I know I speak for a lot of people. I say, thank you for doing it. And I hope it continues to be successful and grow and grow.

Trent Manning: 
Thank you so much. thank you for being on this has been great. It’s so much fun to pick your brain and kind of get a different aspect. And I think that’s as equipment managers or technicians, if you’re listening, stuff, you need to know why we’re doing what we’re doing.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah, it’s a very unique business and it’s tell you what if you’re a good golf course technician you’ll always have a job. Always.

Trent Manning: 
Oh yeah, for sure. And

Bland Cooper: 
You’re the most important person on the planet. You’re more employable than any attorney or doctor or nurse or COVID expert or your their time’s going to come and go with you and your they’ll always there’ll always be a place for that career and up question.

Trent Manning: 
when lucky for us or whatever you want to call it, the pay is increased.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah.

Trent Manning: 
years clubs. And this is only going up from here.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah. And these team golf to not keep up. In the assistant PE gosh I paid the system back in the nineties. What people are making, not that just a couple of years ago, and it’s embarrassing and wonder why a lot of people were going into something else. That’s why, and it’s, but similar to what you’re doing now is catching up and it’s think for the first time I’ve told this to the industries from my side of it is for the first time, probably 20 years worth getting into these kids coming out of school. Now, I think I’m going to have a good career ahead of them. So

Trent Manning: 
Oh, for sure.

Bland Cooper: 
starting time.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah. And it’s, yeah, it’s not, we’re talking about technicians, but it’s this is the whole industry.

Bland Cooper: 
Yeah, I’m talking about assistance and that’s

Trent Manning: 
For sure.

Bland Cooper: 
yeah. You wouldn’t 20 years ago a technician getting paid six figures or so nobody would then now you go through Florida and if somebody goes to 60, you aren’t getting anybody the elite, the nicer call option. That’s excellent. Yeah, that’s, a,

Trent Manning: 
it always blows my mind. When I look at these job ads and write on there, they say, you need to be a welder. You need to know small engines. You need to know diesel, you to know all these things, and we’re going to pay you $40,000 a year. Yeah, you can’t find just a welder. You’re not going to find a welder for $40,000 a year. So how can you find a welder and a guy that knows all this other stuff?

Bland Cooper: 
Now this little central right here in Sumpter, not 30 miles away, they have a dickery and they put those guys out at grand, right out of school. They’re there then good Lord to go into underwater, welding. And that kind of thing. That’s

Trent Manning: 
Oh yeah. That’s all another day.

Bland Cooper: 
died any minute but you yeah you’re right. The industry is adjusted cause pay it forced to adjust as, and that’s the way any industry reacts. Nobody’s no interest is going to pay more than what they shouldn’t pay. And if they’re not, we don’t have to long overdue, but I’m glad I’m getting to see it.

Trent Manning: 
Yeah, for sure. I may too. That’s great. thank you so much for being on. enjoyed it I hope I see you. Are you going to the show?

Bland Cooper: 
No, I’m not. I’ve got some stuff. I got a couple of site visits to make, so I’m not going to be able to head out there. You guys have a lot of fun. San Diego is a lot of fun. Good play,

Trent Manning: 
is. But yeah we’re going to have a lot of fun hopefully I’ll see you before east lake, but if not, I’ll definitely see you at east like this year.

Bland Cooper: 
absolutely looking forward to it. Trent.

Trent Manning: 
All right. Thank you.

Bland Cooper: 
Thank you.

Trent Manning: 
I hope you enjoyed hearing from bland. What a great guy. And how small is this community? The superintendent that hired him. For his first superintendent job. I worked for. He hired an assistant superintendent. That I worked for down the road. When he was a superintendent. This is crazy how smallest the industry is. And. Everybody knows everybody. Another thing I want to hit on the value of volunteering. You’re going to get back way more than you put in. So if there’s a tournament in your area, Sign up for it. Talk to the superintendent. Talk to the mechanic, whoever. And sign up to volunteer. It’s definitely worth your time. And if there’s a tournament that you’re really interested, this is not close. Sign up for that. You can work out the logistics of getting there. And you’ll have a great time. I’ve been talking to J R Wilson. And we’re going to have a class at his shop on March 14th. Uh, no yet golf club, if anybody’s up in that area or if you’re interested. We would love to have you. I want to be doing a couple of classes. Jr’s doing some stuff. He’s got lunch provided. There’s going to be a really good time. If you want any more details, just reach out to me or Jr. And we would hope to see you there. Until next time. See you. Bye. thank you so much for listening to the real turf techs podcast. I hope you learned something today. Don’t forget to subscribe. If you have any topics you’d like to discuss, or you’d like to be a guest, find us on Twitter at real turf techs.

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